Interview of the month

Robert Toll, the so-called "king of suburban mini-mansions,"  and just about the biggest residential builder in the history of the world, talks to the Wall Street Journal about cities and why he is betting his company's future on them.

"We are following our people. We have been a builder to the baby boom since we began. First that took us into the move-up luxury-home business, then into golf-course resort communities. It has also taken us into the active-adult communities. The city is a combination resort community, but the resort is New York City -- or Chicago or L.A. or Miami. "

WSJ: What does this shift say about baby boomers?

Mr. Toll: It says we are not as our parents were. The baby boomer always wanted more. We are more hip-hop and happening than our parents. We want the sophistication and joy of culture and music that comes with city dwelling -- and doesn't come with sitting in the big home in the burbs watching the day go by while puttering, painting, reading, writing, making flies for fishing, customizing your own golf clubs, stringing your own tennis racket, tending your tropical fish.

It was a rarity 20 years ago to find hedge-fund Johnny making a decision to stay in the city. Home buyers went up to Westchester and out to New Jersey -- back to wherever they came from. It was a rarity to see kids in the city. Now it's not.

What do kids do in the burbs? You ride your bike until you can get your car. You've done the three movies at the plex. Now what? Having had five kids, I'm not sure that it's not more dangerous in the burbs than it is in the city because you are riding your bike in traffic. Or you are driving your car, which is even worse. You go down to the [convenience store] and smoke cigarettes, and the parents sit up with their arms wrapped around their knees, hoping that you come home.

WSJ: Just 10 or 15 years ago, everyone thought cities were dying, and no one wanted to live in them.

Mr. Toll: Absolutely right. But [affluent home buyers] weren't there. We hadn't demanded the services, and we weren't there with the willingness to pay for the services that make that city what it is today. People have come in and insisted, 'I don't want the bum on the sidewalk.' Now, there is no committee meeting. The cops go out and chase him off.

WSJ: Is it easier to build in the suburbs versus the city?

Mr. Toll: It's easier in the city. The approval process is more professional in the city. The experts that you deal with are pretty much doing the assigned job, as opposed to the secret unassigned job to stop the growth, stop sprawl [in the suburbs].

WSJ: Is the amount of time people have to spend commuting from the suburbs pushing people into cities?

Mr. Toll: No, it's such a different lifestyle that I don't think people who are in burbs get up and say I can't stand the drive time, let's move back into the city. I think they've got to want to go into the city.

WSJ: Do you have criteria you use before you plunge into a city.

Mr. Toll: Is there excitement in the city? Will people want to come? And has someone else succeeded? We are not going first, I will tell you that. It also has to be a great land price. We are not going into this on a 'let's try it' basis. High-rise development is much more dangerous, much riskier than suburban development because you've got to build the whole damn thing. You can't knock part of it off. But first the demand has got to be there. We can create destinations in mountains and valleys. But I don't think we create destinations in cities.

WSJ: Do you see other cities coming back?

Mr. Toll: It's going to happen in such strange places as Newark [N.J.]. Newark is going to slowly gather its excitement.

WSJ: Detroit?

Mr. Toll: I don't see it because the economy is so ripped. There is a downtown, but you wouldn't go there.